SCSI Connector ID

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:23 pm

Hi,
I 've just got an external HD for my Emu sampler. I could do with its SCSI connectors identifying.

It's a 68 pin, 45mm long frame.
Does this look like the lead I need?

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/scsi-cab ... s/1823999/
The sampler has a CN50 female socket.

Cheers,
Mtd

calaveras · Post by **calaveras** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:19 pm

ouch, SCSI.
What does the EMU SCSI port look like?
CN stands for Centronics. It's basically the same kind of connector as a printer cable from that era.
That sharp angled skinny port on the external box looks like a SCSI II or SCSI III connection. It gets kind of confusing because there are a ton of versions of SCSI II/III. Fast SCSI II, Wide SCSI II, UW SCSI III etc.
They are mostly compatible, especially if you only have the one device in the chain and not a bunch of drives and a scanner.
One thing you might need to pick up is a SCSI termination to go on the end of the SCSI chain. It's basically a little lump that will cover up one of those two SCSI ports and keep the signal from ringing.

https://www.computercablestore.com/scsi ... malefemale

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:43 pm

that is SCSI2/3 Fast Wide connection...
Survey Says.... you need 25pin to fast wide cable
SCSI2
With the arrival of SCSI-2, the situation was a bit less chaotic. For narrow SCSI, most manufacturers used the MD50, also sometimes referred to as a Micro DB50, High Density or HD50, Half-Pitch or HP50, or MiniHonda. This connector has two rows of 25 pins and a trapezoidal (D-shaped) shell, and is about 1 3/8” (36mm) wide.

A few vendors did use the Micro Centronics 50, and IBM continued to use the HDCN60 on some RS-6000 systems.

For Wide SCSI-2, the most common connector was the larger sibling of the MD50, known as the MD68, HD68, MiniD68, or HPDB68. This is about 1 7/8” (47mm) wide. IBM used the HDCN68 on some RS-6000 systems, and it seems likely that a few other manufacturers used other alternatives.

that's the cable eye would grab first

plus a terminator...

You may have 68pin oldschool SCSI on that Vintage Sampler
What's the EMU sampler?

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:45 pm

Hi Calaveras,
Thanks for that info. The sampler has a 50 pin centronics female connector. Regarding any conflicts,I've got a SCSI CD ROM, so I wouldn't need them both connected at the same time.
Think I have terminator somewhere....What's ringing?
Regards,
MTD.

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:50 pm

You want both connected for transferring CDROM samples to HD...
that is 2x db50 Fast SCSI Cables
SET the ID# on each Device
located on the device
End of chain is your highest SCSI ID#
need a terminator either way....

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:54 pm

Hi High Lord Fixer,

Thanks for the info. Having looked into it all a bit more, I think the connector is a HD68 not VHD.
I found a web site that gave measurements of the 68pins connectors and mine matched the 45-7mm one.
Think I'll go for that lead even though it'll cost almost as much as the HD.

The sampler is an E4XTUltra. Had it since new, maxed out RAM - ha all 128meg of it.

Cheers,
MTD.

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:09 pm

Is this your Emu^
that's oldschool 68
Yeah counted the pins on your EXT HD... HD68
that's cable is gonna be obscure/pricey
and what is the SCSI connector on your cdrom?
You may want cable that goes from EMU to CDROM to EXT HD...
that would probably be least expensive way getting them all on SCSI chain
apologize for initial wrong call on Ext HD connection... didn't count the pins... looked like 50pin at fast glance

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:29 pm

That is the one.

Only one SCSI socket though.
The socket on the CD is a 50 pin D, which is working ok now that I replaced its PSU board.
IIRC, the CD 's got a terminator on board.
I'll see if a 50 pin D to 68 pin HD cable can be got,never thought about doing that.
The samplers got a 3 GB internally and just planned to load the CD's onto that then onto the external. A bit clunky, but as long as it works....

At the end of the day though as long as the Emu keeps working I'm a happy bunny. The extra storage is just convenience. I love old hardware samplers, what can I say.... would love an Akai S6k.
Cheers,
MTD.

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:34 pm

plus you will need correct SCSI Terminator on Ext HD
disable termination on CDROM...
so data flows thru chain all the way for HD

calaveras · Post by **calaveras** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:20 pm

I feel bad, a couple years ago I tossed all my SCSI cables and adapters. I surely had the one you need! But every time I move I whittle down my trove of obscure obsolete computer gear.
As far as hooking everything up, you really should go to the trouble to get the CDROM and Hdd set up at the same time. Just make sure each device is set to a different Id number. It’s not hard with 3 devices. It gets hard when you have 7!

dkcg · Post by **dkcg** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:52 pm

calaveras wrote:I feel bad, a couple years ago I tossed all my SCSI cables and adapters. I surely had the one you need! But every time I move I whittle down my trove of obscure obsolete computer gear.
As far as hooking everything up, you really should go to the trouble to get the CDROM and Hdd set up at the same time. Just make sure each device is set to a different Id number. It’s not hard with 3 devices. It gets hard when you have 7!

Even worse...I know I have a bunch of old SCSI, FastWide SCSI, ATTO cards, etc. somewhere in a couple boxes in the pile of almost 2 decades worth of crap from the loft I just moved out of. I even found an old 4mmDAT tape backup machine and a 2x CD burner with that same connector from my old Silicon Graphics machines. The SGIs always had the fast/wide SCSI, so I'm sure I have cables somewhere.

I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as a 50pin (std SCSI) to 68pin F/W SCSI cable. I would have used one back then if that worked. I'll take a quick look tonight, as there's one box I saw that might have the SCSI cables. I could swear that there was also a connector that wasn't fast-wide, but looked similar and was 25pin? I could swear I had a cable like that that connected to standard SCSI, but never a 68 pin.

I'm pretty sure the 68pin won't work with the 50pin SCSI. Try some used PC shops in your area. That might be the best bet for an external drive for the sampler.

If the OP can't find one, I could look for a drive that might work in my pile of old ass outdated computing equipment, but I think my biggest scsi drive is 2gigs, maybe 4. You know...like a fraction of a memory stick.

Next thing you know, he'll be looking for a 32meg SIMM stick of RAM or a NuBus card.

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:53 pm

it becomes the game of find the cable in the 20+ suitcases of cables & power supplies sometimes...
and hope the suitcase that contains the cable hasn't turned into a nest of snakes...
because then it's pull everything apart and rewind them all....
all my import cables are hanging from walls & racks or plugged in...
yet somedays you need that one cable from your mac 8100AV:P
or the Quadra 950...
40mhz...
took an hour to normalize 4 minutes... in Sound DesignerII
with Protools 442...
hey at least my Waves were realtime via 442Rack for direct to DAT
hmm that reminds me my Nubus Sample Cell sitting here in the Digidesign box for that 8100 system....
yet my ASR10r & s760 are way closer... yawn

almost finished with this project
for composing/controlling samplers/rack gear/Midi CV Gate
time for FUN!

dkcg · Post by **dkcg** » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:27 pm

Found all my SCSI cables last night...box marked "SCSI cables". Who would have known...

I have a ton of 68 to 68 pin FW cables, a few 50 pin FW to 68 pin FW cables, 50 pin FW to 50 pin FW, 50 pin SCSI to 25 pin SCSI, 50 to 50 pin SCSI, but not a single 50pin SCSI to 68pin FW SCSI. I don't think they ever existed.

I don't think that external case will work with the sampler. The drive inside might with the right case with connector, but not that external case.

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:05 am

Bugger, bugger, and bugger again.

All ye nay sayers were right, got a 50pin Centronics to 68 pin Hdp (or something) cable from good 'ole RS. EMU won't recognise there's a drive there.
So the cable goes back, as for the HD, well its come from someone selling Akai S5/6k samplers so onto evil bay it'll go since the connectors match.

Thanks to everybody who suggested stuff, and I'm glad you (dkcg)found your scuzzy stash again.

Regards,
MTD.

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:43 am

it could be the scsi dive is bad....
or it could be the controller card in the EXT....
vote goes for HD error so not recognizing... from experience
OH... did you check the jumpers on that Physical model SCSI HD in the EXT case?

sutekina bipu-on · Post by **sutekina bipu-on** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:47 am

And make sure the scsi id are not overlapping.... for example if the drive is id #4 and your sampler is id #4, they wont see each other

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:10 pm

this is all the usual troubleshooting with SCSI
don't give up
otherwise if you do
and feel like just smashing the EXT drive
list it for $0.99 buy it now
one if us can figure it out somehow
keep making logical attempts getting it working with your sampler
SCSI is not really always "plug & play"
it is only when you are "lucky"
on the first attempt

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:01 pm

Hi,
@Sutekina - tried a couple of id's 2 & 3. The CD ROM was 3 but it wasn't connected. Once the Emu seemed to freeze on boot up.
The floppy is 9 and the int. HD is 1(I think).

@HighLord - I'll keep trying for a while, but I'm really sh*tting myself that I'll damage the Emu and it won't see the int drive. The floppy I'm not bothered about, so might pluck up courage to swap it for a SCSI2SD. That (in theory) should solve all my problems.
No, forgot to check the jumpers, so will do before I decide what to do wth the drive.
Cheers both,
MTD.

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:04 pm

put it on 7

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:16 am

Will try it later. At work now. Why 7? Is it a magic I'd?

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:57 am

works on my ext CDROM
pulled an old internal Apple SCSI cdrom from old mac 7100
slapped it into Phillips EXT CDROM case with dead CDROM
pulled the SCSI id jumper cable built into case
EXT CDROM now shows up as ID7 on my ENSONIQ ASR10s
plus other samplers
old SCSI trick
the switch on the case can be set for anything now on external case
it doesn't matter what that switch is on for ID#
because
pulled ext case ID switch jumpers cable wires from internal drive
that device is SCSI ID7
went round and round with it
until made that EXT SCSI CDROM work

On a parallel SCSI bus, a device (e.g. host adapter, disk drive) is identified by a "SCSI ID", which is a number in the range 0–7 on a narrow bus and in the range 0–15 on a wide bus. On earlier models a physical jumper or switch controls the SCSI ID of the initiator (host adapter). On modern host adapters (since about 1997), doing I/O to the adapter sets the SCSI ID; for example, the adapter often contains a BIOS program that runs when the computer boots up and that program has menus that let the operator choose the SCSI ID of the host adapter. Alternatively, the host adapter may come with software that must be installed on the host computer to configure the SCSI ID. The traditional SCSI ID for a host adapter is 7, as that ID has the highest priority during bus arbitration (even on a 16 bit bus).

The SCSI ID of a device in a drive enclosure that has a back plane is set either by jumpers or by the slot in the enclosure the device is installed into, depending on the model of the enclosure. In the latter case, each slot on the enclosure's back plane delivers control signals to the drive to select a unique SCSI ID. A SCSI enclosure without a back plane often has a switch for each drive to choose the drive's SCSI ID. The enclosure is packaged with connectors that must be plugged into the drive where the jumpers are typically located; the switch emulates the necessary jumpers. While there is no standard that makes this work, drive designers typically set up their jumper headers in a consistent format that matches the way that these switches implement.

Setting the bootable (or first) hard disk to SCSI ID 0 is an accepted IT community recommendation. SCSI ID 2 is usually set aside for the floppy disk drive while SCSI ID 3 is typically for a CD-ROM drive.

cretaceousear · Post by **cretaceousear** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:37 am

Woo - what a timewarp.
I must have taken my SCSI drives to recycling, along with my Quadra 840A/V.
For a while I kept a few cables just in case, but haven't seen them for years.

I kept a terminator block as a memento somewhere... tempus bloody fugit

HighLordFixer · Post by **HighLordFixer** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:42 am

My PowerMac Upgraded 8100A/V NUBUS will boot and
record some more records using Protools Rack if ever need be
Witch actually contemplating doing this Summer
just for the sake of proving for myself
that eye remember PT3.2 & Sound DesignerII
like the back of my own hand
plus there are some trax buried on those fireballs/barracudas
(ones that didn't make it for vinyl or existing tape)
that need being transferred
must have 50-100 dats
yet
Tascam DA30 has long since become a paper weight rack filler
use SCSI with "oldschool" samplers for loading my 10+ custom cdrom series of sounds

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:32 am

@Cretaceousear, the E-mu is my version of a whale fin Porsche 911! Preferably white with red & blue stripes.

@HighLord, you've given me plenty to check out this weekend.

Cheers,
MTD.

MAXTHEDOG · Post by **MAXTHEDOG** » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:43 pm

Well I admit defeat!
@HighLord, I followed your advice and tried every one of the spare ID's and the E-mu recognised it absolutely zero times. Even got stuck on boot up a couple of times - that really freaked me out. It's ok though and boots up as it always has and still sees the CD ROM.
I powere the E-mu up with the HD on and off for each ID, working my way through the combinations.
Methinks this is for Akai S5/6k's not E-mu.
So back on eBay it'll go. Or should I get an S6k.....
Thanks again to everyone who contributed.
MTD.

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SCSI Connector ID

SCSI Connector ID